David West
David West
  • Видео 1 144
  • Просмотров 12 873 565
Fire Making Hack: Using A Vape Found On The Trail
DANGER… Vape batteries can explode and catch on fire. In today’s video, I demonstrate how to make fire using an unexpected tool - a vape that I found on the walking trail. Fortunately, the vape’s battery still had a good charge and, conveniently, had leads soldered to both ends.
I started by testing it indoors to understand its capabilities. When it easily ignited char cloth, I knew it was time to head outside and get our fire on. Once again, it easily ignited char cloth, which I used to ignite pine needles. Next, I tried punkwood, which took three attempts. Why? I had to find a more comfortable way to hold the vape in the correct position. Additionally, the side of the punkwood that I ch...
Просмотров: 1 545

Видео

Fire Roll, Moist Yucca Pith In Cotton
Просмотров 7102 часа назад
Fire rolling Pith in cotton is usually quick and easy, but not today! It took 18 long minutes, so I had to heavily edit it. I still want you to see how easy it can be so please check out the two videos below. In them, I used a horseweed spindle and a Dogfennel spindle to make hand drill friction fires. I then used pith from the same spindles to make fire roll friction fires. Please follow the L...
Fire Making: Turning Found Resources Into Future Resources
Просмотров 1,5 тыс.4 часа назад
In this video, I demonstrate how to turn a 3/8” piece of chapstick into 20 pieces of char cloth and charred punkwood. Watch as I use a ferro rod to ignite jute saturated with chapstick, which then ignites a wet wood fire. This fire is used to cook up a tin full of charred punkwood and char cloth. I also test out some of the char cloth using a polished tablespoon solar ignition. Please follow th...
Final Dogwood Burn Demo - Chainsaw Next Time!
Просмотров 9347 часов назад
In this video, I present my final demonstration of igniting and burning the stubborn Dogwood tree. Despite its versatility in making bow drill sets, a killer baton/club, a wedge, and some of the best fire roll ashes ever, it’s got to go. Dogwood tinder is tough to ignite and the kindling seems to resist burning. Once it finally gets started, though, it burns great. Watch as I demonstrate anothe...
Fire Roll Filler Advice For Easier Ignitions
Просмотров 1,1 тыс.9 часов назад
The round layers of a fire roll have to restrict and compact down into a very tight core before the pressure, friction, and chemical reaction can produce an ember. If you try to use fluffy fillers like scrapings, Lichens, Fungi, strips of char cloth, piths, etc. you will inhibit that much needed compaction. Always try to process your fillers down into dust or smaller. I will demonstrate today w...
Practicing Fire Making Techniques Is My Hobby, Found Cordage
Просмотров 1,3 тыс.12 часов назад
I found a flat nylon cord at the walking trail this morning. It’s going to make an incredibly strong bow drill bow string. But first, there’s a lot of chores that has to get done. Practicing Fire making techniques is my hobby and I practice almost every day. There’s much that you can learn from it, for example in today’s practice: 1) How to use flat cordage for bow drill. 2) How to attach it to...
Aluminum Can Solar Igniting Punkwood, Amazing Closeups
Просмотров 1,3 тыс.14 часов назад
Any Aluminum can’s bottom will shine up to a mirror finish. It can then collect photons from the Sun and project the out about 3/4" from the can into an incredibly hot focal point. Even with such a hazy sky, I repeatedly got punkwood to ignite. Checkout these great closeups and the resulting fire. Please follow the LINK below and SUBSCRIBE. Thank You! Solar Ignitions Playlist ruclips.net/p/PLko...
Lost Knife, How To Scrape Fatwood And Ferro Rod With Glass
Просмотров 6 тыс.16 часов назад
If you find yourself without a knife, a shard of glass from a broken bottle can serve as a handy tool for cutting and scraping materials. Today, our focus will be solely on scraping. On this morning's walk, I found a brown glass bottle. I brought it home, wrapped it securely in t-shirt material, and gave it a good smash, ahhh, too good of a smash. I applied too much force and caused shards to s...
2 Ways To Empty BIC Ignite Char Also Making A Fatwood Match
Просмотров 1,5 тыс.19 часов назад
You should be practicing Fire Making Techniques. Here are 3 of the easiest ones that you can try: 1)Empty BIC ignited chars with BIC held down on its side. 2) Empty BIC ignited chars while those chars are being held very close to the striker wheel and spark. BTW, Empty BICs ignite punkwood and cotton just as easily as char. 3) How to make and use a Fatwood match. Please follow the LINKs below a...
How To Find, Polish, And Use A Can To Solar Ignite Char Cloth
Просмотров 1,2 тыс.День назад
How To Find, Polish, And Use A Can To Solar Ignite Char Cloth Please follow the LINKs below and SUBSCRIBE. Thank You! Flint And Steel Playlist ruclips.net/p/PLkoXX8XsMW3mFf5FgLtam1aDmXmqQQice Solar Ignitions Playlist ruclips.net/p/PLkoXX8XsMW3kl5CicmPv0pTz-7rj4gczW
Flint And Steel, Dull Flint? Use Interior Edges And Ledges
Просмотров 1,4 тыс.День назад
The Flint and Steel Technique is very easy with a sharp piece of Flint, Chert, or Quartz. The problem is, that their perimeters dull very quickly. Yes, it’s true, you could flake sharpen those edges with an antler or smash the Flint into smaller sharp pieces. But, don’t overlook those existing very sharp interior edges and ledges. Please follow the LINKs below and SUBSCRIBE. Thank You! Flint An...
To Ferro Rod Ignite Wet Wood, Put A Sock In It!
Просмотров 1,4 тыс.День назад
See the LINKS below that repeatedly show this technique working. Today, though, I had to use a Fatwood assist to get the wet Dogwood burning because of "operator error". I made the log cabin fire lay too small to accept the Ferro Rod ignited sock. Tucked deeper inside, there would have been enough room to place a handful of pencil sized tinder on top. Oh well, the Fatwood sticks that I used nex...
3 Ways To Make Emergency Fire With A T-Shirt
Просмотров 4,6 тыс.День назад
When there's no dry tinder in the woods consider using parts of your t-shirt to Ferro Rod ignite. It will burn plenty hot enough to dry out and ignite the wettest kindling. Then make use of that emergency fire by using the same 100% cotton t-shirt to cook up some char cloth. Lastly, and alternately, if you don't have a Ferro Rod start thinking bow drill. Your t-shirt will once again save the da...
Bow Drill Tip That Doubles Your Strength And Endurance
Просмотров 2,1 тыс.14 дней назад
This bow drill tip will double your strength and endurance and speed up recovery. Being in the bow drill position, my diaphragm is so restricted that I can only take 1/4 breaths. Think about that. At a time when my body requires much more oxygen, I’m only able to get 1/4 breaths. When I do 100 strokes with the bow, 1 stroke equals a forward and return, that’s 100 seconds of highly restricted br...
Fatwood Bow Drill Bearing Block, Its Other Use
Просмотров 1,1 тыс.14 дней назад
Did you see yesterday’s video? (Link below) I showed you how to harvest a Pine knot, smash it over a rock into shards, how to turn a shard into a bearing block, then used it to make a bow drill friction fire. Well, of course, there’s another great use for this bearing block. Let’s scrape Fatwood off it and then ignite it with our Bayite Ferro Rod. Please follow the LINKs below and SUBSCRIBE. Th...
Make A Fatwood Bow Drill Bearing Block By Smashing A Pine Knot
Просмотров 1,7 тыс.14 дней назад
Make A Fatwood Bow Drill Bearing Block By Smashing A Pine Knot
People Insinuate That I Waste Resources. Huh?
Просмотров 2,2 тыс.14 дней назад
People Insinuate That I Waste Resources. Huh?
How To Solar Ignite One Of Earth’s Hardest Woods
Просмотров 2,3 тыс.14 дней назад
How To Solar Ignite One Of Earth’s Hardest Woods
Empty Bic Fire Making: Often, It’s All You Need
Просмотров 2,4 тыс.14 дней назад
Empty Bic Fire Making: Often, It’s All You Need
Do You Practice With Your EDC Ferro Rod?
Просмотров 1,6 тыс.21 день назад
Do You Practice With Your EDC Ferro Rod?
Cotton Fire Roll (No Filler) 1st Success After 10 Years
Просмотров 1,6 тыс.21 день назад
Cotton Fire Roll (No Filler) 1st Success After 10 Years
Bow Drill Embers Galore From 1 Divot
Просмотров 2,1 тыс.21 день назад
Bow Drill Embers Galore From 1 Divot
To Bow Drill Dogwood Try End Grain On End Grain
Просмотров 1,5 тыс.21 день назад
To Bow Drill Dogwood Try End Grain On End Grain
Corona Razor Tooth Saw, “Half Sharp” Discussion
Просмотров 1,4 тыс.21 день назад
Corona Razor Tooth Saw, “Half Sharp” Discussion
Bow Drill, Dogwood Spindle On A Universal Fire Board
Просмотров 1 тыс.28 дней назад
Bow Drill, Dogwood Spindle On A Universal Fire Board
How To Wallet Fresnel Lens Solar Ignite Difficult Tinders
Просмотров 1,9 тыс.28 дней назад
How To Wallet Fresnel Lens Solar Ignite Difficult Tinders
How To Make And Use A Dogwood Wedge
Просмотров 104 тыс.Месяц назад
How To Make And Use A Dogwood Wedge
My New Dogwood Baton Thinks He’s A Club!
Просмотров 2,9 тыс.Месяц назад
My New Dogwood Baton Thinks He’s A Club!
How To Bow Drill Hardwoods, There's A Sweet Spot
Просмотров 1,7 тыс.Месяц назад
How To Bow Drill Hardwoods, There's A Sweet Spot
SAK Fieldmaster Saw Cutting Rock Hard Dogwood
Просмотров 2 тыс.Месяц назад
SAK Fieldmaster Saw Cutting Rock Hard Dogwood

Комментарии

  • @thomasmusso1147
    @thomasmusso1147 6 часов назад

    👍👍👍 .. yet another good one 😊. This is the closest that I've been to one of those Vape Gizmos. When out and about, I at times, see the odd individual sucking away on one. That extension coming out of the Vape .. perhaps part of a battery recharge doodah? Thanks for the share .. take care ..

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 46 минут назад

      It first looked like an electrical plug in. Now, Lol, I think it’s just a cap for the mouthpiece.

  • @jerrytalley802
    @jerrytalley802 11 часов назад

    Stanley 024 is a demo knife too, lol

  • @Wolf_K
    @Wolf_K 11 часов назад

    Now I know your secret, David. You lay around on the bed with your fire tools all day thinking up crazy ideas. 😂

  • @lapboard340
    @lapboard340 12 часов назад

    ….and he has a sense of humour too!

  • @marybeam96
    @marybeam96 13 часов назад

    Can you use a big can to char cloth, or do you have to do a little bit at a time.

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 12 часов назад

      I used a popcorn tin to char an entire shirt. The char was not very reactive. The smaller can allows gases to escape more thoroughly. See my char cloth playlist. The Link is in this Description.

  • @chasepaste
    @chasepaste 14 часов назад

    Lots of vape juice contain some percentage of glycerin. When mixed with potassium permanganate powder you get a white hot chemical ignition. My scout master used to setup this reaction with a coffee filter between the two chemicals as a delay allowing the camp fire to self ignite spontaneously midway thru one of his ghost stories. Thanks for all you do my friend.

  • @MichaelR58
    @MichaelR58 14 часов назад

    Interesting video David, thanks for sharing YAH bless !

  • @brooksto
    @brooksto 15 часов назад

    I'm so glad you keep finding new and interesting ways to make fire! Thank you for creating such valuable and quality content David!

  • @TerryC69
    @TerryC69 15 часов назад

    Hi David! This one is Diamond Jim certified! This is a perfect example of foraging for resources in an urban environment.

  • @georgerector9252
    @georgerector9252 15 часов назад

    Jute twine is my go to. I wax with bees’ wax and braid into zipper pulls, lanyards, rifle slings and even belts. All in addition to ridge and guy lines. Frayed with a sharp edge, it will ignite with a ferro rod, solar ignition or an ember from friction source. I never leave home without it.

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 12 часов назад

      Burns a long time with that impregnated wax. Good ideas.

  • @davidburkhalter8262
    @davidburkhalter8262 17 часов назад

    You really McGivered that one!! Thanks for sharing this very entertaining video.

  • @joehuber9168
    @joehuber9168 17 часов назад

    Very interesting thanks for sharing Mr west 👍👌🔥

  • @peterolsen4397
    @peterolsen4397 17 часов назад

    Outstanding!

  • @TommyBoles-x9e
    @TommyBoles-x9e 17 часов назад

    David, as I was trying to Bow drill on my front porch today in 98 degree weather, it suddenly hit me. What has David West done to me to cause me to be out here sawing away in this heat and Arkansas humidity. It's like I'm an addict and you're my dealer. Wife won't let me start a fire in the house. Wasps won't leave me alone outside, yet, I'm thinking about heading back out to try some more. Help !!

  • @rogermiller5765
    @rogermiller5765 17 часов назад

    Awesome as always

  • @instructoruldemeditatie2367
    @instructoruldemeditatie2367 17 часов назад

    Very nice!In a survival situation this is quite useful.. But be careful with the battery .I think this is not short protected and these batteries can put very much current and they can explode..

  • @onesky8647
    @onesky8647 17 часов назад

    I'm trying to figure out what kind of batteries are in those Raz Vape TN9000 vapes. I think it looks like a 650mAh LiPo rechargable battery with 3.7V, but please do correct me if I'm wrong. That would explain why it still had some punch. Shorting LiPo batteries in general is usually not a great idea as they tend to catch fire themselves, as the very hot wires were hinting at. :)

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 16 часов назад

      It had to be rechargeable because brand new ni-cads don’t have that much juice in them. You’re right they are dangerous to short. If I had known, I’d have constantly been feeling the outside of the battery.

  • @stephenguthrie3907
    @stephenguthrie3907 17 часов назад

    Be careful that battery can be an unexpected bomb

  • @BluestedSRT4
    @BluestedSRT4 18 часов назад

    Wonder how many volts it was still producing?

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 16 часов назад

      Not sure. I usually think of that size as 1.5 v. But this wasn’t the normal ni-cad battery. It must have been the dangerous rechargeable battery. They can overheat and explode.

  • @jamesclendenen1357
    @jamesclendenen1357 18 часов назад

    Thank You Mr. West for another great post! Your creativity for fire methods seems to know no bounds!! That mullein is lookin' pretty sturdy!! 🤣

  • @a-k-jun-1
    @a-k-jun-1 18 часов назад

    Probably the only good thing I've ever seen a vape used for 😂

  • @ARAW-__-
    @ARAW-__- 18 часов назад

    Excellent one ! 🫡

  • @akbychoice
    @akbychoice 18 часов назад

    Oh boy and I just found another one while mowing near the road. TY

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 16 часов назад

      The rechargeable vape batteries can explode. Google it.

  • @iUniverzX
    @iUniverzX 18 часов назад

    Good job David you don't need that vape anyway with all the smoke your creating,

  • @onemynde8915
    @onemynde8915 18 часов назад

    Once you had the liquid compartment off, there is an element that is used to vaporize it that will get red hot just as it is if the controls still operate. Exposing that will give you a direct means of igniting tinder, although it might burn itself out shortly. Great find showing how to make fire from just about anything and I thank you for the years of education and entertainment.

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 16 часов назад

      Suction turns on the circuit. I guess it could be manually manipulated.

  • @ernstandersen979
    @ernstandersen979 18 часов назад

    👍

  • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
    @DavidWestBgood2ppl 19 часов назад

    In today’s video, I demonstrate how to make fire using an unexpected tool - a vape that I found on the walking trail. Fortunately, the vape’s battery still had a good charge and, conveniently, had leads soldered to both ends. I started by testing it indoors to understand its capabilities. When it easily ignited char cloth, I knew it was time to head outside and get our fire on. Once again, it easily ignited char cloth, which I used to ignite pine needles. Next, I tried punkwood, which took three attempts. Why? I had to find a more comfortable way to hold the vape in the correct position. Additionally, the side of the punkwood that I chose to ignite wasn’t reactive enough, so I had to turn it 180 degrees. On the third attempt, when I shorted the leads together, they did not produce sparks; instead, the copper wires turned cherry red and easily ignited the punkwood. Please follow the LINKs below and SUBSCRIBE. Thank You! Char Cloth, Charred Punkwood Playlist ruclips.net/p/PLkoXX8XsMW3nfHvlf-YghwFdkUBYRIIMy How To Easily Solar Ignite Punkwood With A Tablespoon ruclips.net/video/BYeYKgGh8zU/видео.html

  • @akbychoice
    @akbychoice День назад

    Have you ever used cattails or it even viable?

  • @akbychoice
    @akbychoice День назад

    We have two of the yucca plants, they don’t bloom every year but it’s cool when they do. The plant it’s very pointed on the ends.

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl День назад

      Yes, those sharp pointed leaves contain great fibers to make cordage with.

  • @TerryC69
    @TerryC69 День назад

    Hi David! I know I have mentioned this before, but I appreciate the fact that you leave in the challenges you have making fire. Early on, had it not been for knowing that you sometimes struggled, I might have given up trying myself. Excellent demo!

  • @gregelston8926
    @gregelston8926 День назад

    If that ember to flames “wasn’t very sexy” then that tells me most of your embers to flames are very sexy!!! Lol

  • @watchman4todayreloaded192
    @watchman4todayreloaded192 День назад

    fascinating stuff.

  • @joehuber9168
    @joehuber9168 День назад

    Great advice Mr west I appreciate you sharing your technique 👍👌🔥

  • @MichaelR58
    @MichaelR58 День назад

    Good video David, thanks for sharing YAH bless !

  • @danareed1656
    @danareed1656 День назад

    lol fire making is always sexy! isnt it lol

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl День назад

      True, but we all want to look suave and debonair while making it, too.

  • @Allen-z5p
    @Allen-z5p День назад

    I practice at least 3 or 4 times a week or more if not to hot.thanks David for your channel and all your teachings of bushcrafting

  • @jefftoler9017
    @jefftoler9017 День назад

    Hello David of the David West channel. Killer as always brother

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl День назад

      Thanks Jeff!

    • @keithricketts4867
      @keithricketts4867 День назад

      David with the David West channel..!!! Even when you struggle you still make it look easy..!! Tune in next week folks and see David with the David West channel make fire from a paint brush and an ice cube..!!! 😂 the fire King strikes again..

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl День назад

      Fun, Keith. TY!

    • @glenndarilek520
      @glenndarilek520 День назад

      No need to make any excuses when what you do is astounding!

    • @lapboard340
      @lapboard340 День назад

      I spent two weeks at a camp run by Anchor Point church from Winnipeg and Crossview church from Steinbach. One of the things I taught was five different ways to start a fire. I learned these from you! Thanks for teaching!

  • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
    @DavidWestBgood2ppl День назад

    Fire rolling Pith in cotton is usually quick and easy, but not today! It took 18 long minutes, so I had to heavily edit it. I still want you to see how easy it can be so please check out the two videos below. In them, I used a horseweed spindle and a Dogfennel spindle to make hand drill friction fires. I then used pith from the same spindles to make fire roll friction fires. Please follow the LINKs below and SUBSCRIBE. Thank You! Rudiger Roll, Fire Roll Playlist ruclips.net/p/PLkoXX8XsMW3kLMA7kY_LznhzK5nOrA3Wd Hand Drilling Horseweed Then Fire Rolling It's Pith ruclips.net/video/GJbscKNkmZM/видео.html Hand Drilling Dogfennel Before I Fire Roll It’s Pith ruclips.net/video/GMWs-ThonAQ/видео.html

  • @johntee2353
    @johntee2353 День назад

    Hi David, another good video as always. Watching from London England. You do stuff I know and stuff I didn't know. Keep up the good work.

  • @ChuckisOutside
    @ChuckisOutside 2 дня назад

    Have you ever tried this using a chrome plastic spoon?

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl День назад

      How To Make Fire With A Plastic Fork ruclips.net/video/zkaSg26vyds/видео.htmlsi=oL8bzNbJ5WUYvtY2

  • @thomasmusso1147
    @thomasmusso1147 2 дня назад

    👍👍👍 .. waste not, want not 😊. Good Morning David .. I Nordic Walk most mornings (4-5 days per week) in addition to the pooches twice-daily outing and I'm always on the look out for 'stuff' to salvage. Public Parks, River Outlook Points and Skips have supplied me with more than enough Aluminium Cans and Wire to keep me from getting bored .. lots of experimentation to be had with and subsequent use of, Alcohol Fuel Burners and Pot Stands 😊. I had run out of the Glass Wool Packing that I use inside my Burners .. but lo and behold, just this week past, I picked up a large chunk of Fibre Glass Insulation lying where it wouldn't normally have been, while on a dog walk. A bit wet from the previous night's rain, but it is currently drying out on the flat balcony ('apartment' in Mericanese 😊). Just after your recent post on the use of an empty BIC lighter to ignite char or tinder, I picked up a somewhat weather-beaten BIC on one of my routes. It still has a little gas, but that will be used up chop-chop. Methinks 🤔 .. that Vaseline Lip Balm Dispenser could possibly be reused to hold and dispense a 'home-concocted' fire-mix using, for starters, a Vaseline, Wax and Wood Sawdust. Must look into that .. Thanks for the share .. always a pleasure watching your posts. Until the next then, take care .. Tommy

  • @TerryC69
    @TerryC69 2 дня назад

    Hi David! A tale of dogwood, corn, and mule tape.

  • @TerryC69
    @TerryC69 2 дня назад

    Hi David! That latest run of char cloth seems super reactive.

  • @Mike-ox3bv
    @Mike-ox3bv 2 дня назад

    The bonus edition! Thanks David !

  • @Xxxero42
    @Xxxero42 2 дня назад

    Ok. There we have it. I've never seen the spoon before. Very awesome.

  • @TheCandBExperience
    @TheCandBExperience 2 дня назад

    Very nice! Another good use of that bow string to tie your mullein up with. It's been dry up here and I didn't have to mow for a month but we did get a few storms and the grass is starting to green up again. Be careful with the chainsaw when you cut down that dogwood.

  • @johnpwmcgrath
    @johnpwmcgrath 2 дня назад

    Never, EVER thought of using a spoon’s focal point…..you’ve always got great videos!!! Thanks for the effort David!!!

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 2 дня назад

      There are more like it and others in my solar ignitions playlist.

    • @johnpwmcgrath
      @johnpwmcgrath 2 дня назад

      @@DavidWestBgood2pplI know but if I watch too many of your videos, my wife hides the matches……and yeah, I know what you’re going to say…..lol

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 2 дня назад

      Who needs matches when you’ve got a spoon and some sunlight?

    • @UmpTSquat
      @UmpTSquat 21 час назад

      David, you are always the educator in your videos. Very cool!

  • @andrewheynig2721
    @andrewheynig2721 2 дня назад

    Have you used pine with resin dust.

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 2 дня назад

      You have to understand the technique before you can begin to think about possible materials. Remember, everything logical has already been tried. See my fire roll playlist.

    • @andrewheynig2721
      @andrewheynig2721 2 дня назад

      @@DavidWestBgood2ppl So that is a wordy way of saying No That it doesn't work I guess.

    • @DavidWestBgood2ppl
      @DavidWestBgood2ppl 2 дня назад

      Not meant to offend, But I'd have to write a couple of paragraphs about fire roll basics and why that was such a bad suggestion... outside fibers have to be much stronger than pine needles, fillers can't be resinous, fillers can't melt when heated they must ember, etc.

  • @millw1
    @millw1 2 дня назад

    Thanks again David West. Did anybody at home ask you why your yellow shirt has a carbon stained pocket? Lol

  • @JEFLeb35712
    @JEFLeb35712 2 дня назад

    Thanks, you always prep for success. Very nice demo, proves the point.